008 – Jeff Anderson: Survive Anywhere: Prepared, Whenever, Wherever

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Today’s Survival Dad episode includes vital information for survival dads. The podcast features an interview with Jeff Anderson, founder and editor-in-chief of Modern Combat Survival Magazine and president of the International Society of Close-Quarter Combatants. Buck and Jeff examine the difference between urban survival and wilderness survival, and they discuss how people—both ordinary and experienced—react when it comes down to surviving.

Learn the warning signs and the nature of a survival scenario and what it you can do to be prepared. And join us for a discussion what survival gearis essential and be sure to take advantage of Jeff’s offer to give our listeners a copy of his free Survival Gear Secrets book.

In Today’s Episode:

1:28 – How Jeff Anderson got into urban survival

2:21 – Wilderness vs. urban environments in military training

3:05 – Types of people in an urban survival environment

3:39 – Ordinary people over the edge

5:30 – Why urban survival is critical

7:06 -The nature of and warning signs of a realistic survival scenario

10:31 – Wide-scale event that could change the lives of Americans according to Jeff

11:53 – Why westerners are oblivious to probable impending danger

14:01 – Jeff explains that one disaster could lead to a chain of events

16:19 – Basic readiness

18:08 – Jeff explains layering out your survival gear and the importance of everyday carry

23:48 – Why can’t people just survive in place? Best and worst case

27:03 – The key items in a bug-out bag

29:29 – Final notes

 

Buck introduces Jeff Anderson

Buck:Hello folks, it’s Buck Rizvi with Survival Dad, and today I’m here with Jeff Anderson who’s the founder and editor-in-chief of Modern Combat Survival Magazine and the president of the International Society of Close-Quarter Combatants. Jeff is a decorated combat veteran of the US military and a lifelong student of traditional martial arts. He lives with his family in Austin, Texas. In the Austin, Texas, area. Jeff? Are you there?

Jeff: I’m here, man.

Buck: Hey, thanks for joining us I really appreciateit.

Jeff: Hi, this is what I love the most, just talking.

Buck:Yeah, nothing easier, right? Just a couple of friends chewing the fat.

Jeff: Yeah.

Buck: So, Austin, man, that seems like an enclave of less left-leaning citizens who think survival-oriented folks are nut jobs. Am I wrong?

Jeff: Not too far. Well, New Austin I would say, yeah, that’s probablythe thing, and actually out where I live, which is about 45 minutes outside of Austin. It’s probably even more so because it’s like all of the freedom fighters have moved out of Austin, which has just become basically a transplant of young,hip people from California now.

Buck: Right.

Jeff:They’re just stuffing him in there as much as they can. So,all the old-timers from Austin that like that small-town feel in a big city are all kind of moving to the outskirts,like us.

Buck: Okay, well, I know the government will take care of everyone in Austin,and everything will be fine.

How Jeff Anderson got into urban survival

Jeff: Yeah, there’s a little bubble over it.

Buck: Exactly. But you and I are here to talk about some serious business. You know, being a decorated [veteran], and I know you’re no stranger to combat situations. How did you get interested in urban survival?

Jeff: Really, it was because I saw wilderness survival as kind of one of those things where, like, if you watch the reality TV shows, it’s you versus the wild. I want to say it’s like controlled environment, but you know, if you have certain skills, it’s not that hard to subsist inside of wilderness type of an area. Now, I was really into wilderness survival and things like that as a kid. As a young kid, I was really into Native Americans, and I remember going oncamping trips with friends and boy scouts and everything. And while everybody would have, like, the coolers packed up and stuff like that, I would just come with a knife. Which is really stupid at that age. Like, I remember,“Oh shit, what am I going to eat?”

Buck: Right, sure.

Wilderness vs. urban environments in military training

Jeff: It’s like I’mout foraging for berries,and my stomach is grumbling. So I, you know, I did a lot of that as a kid,but in the military the type of combat that, like, we did all of our training, which was often times in the wilderness. It was that type of an environment. We are always training versus the Russians Spetsnazand things like that on that type of terrain but with a tent and mountain vision we did a lot of urban type combat,and when I was in combat, it was in an urban environment as well as in a wilderness environment. So, we had in the tent and mountain vision, we had to be proficient across all different terrains and everything.

Buck: Sure.

Types of people in an urban survival environment

Jeff: But it was the urban environment, to me, that was the least controllable from a survival standpoint. Because you have that factor of other people involved. And especially in some sort of a collapse, you have several different types of people that are involved. You have the authorities, you have the relief people like FEMA[Federal Emergency Management Agency], Red Cross people are there for that.

Buck:Yes.

Jeff: You have the, what we call, the zombies, who are the people that are unprepared for anything, and you know, they’re expecting to be taken care of,or they just never expect anything bad to happen. And they’re the ones [who are] roaming around unprepared, who are also a threat. Because,I mean, anytime somebody’s in a position where it’s, like, “Oh my God,how do I keep my family alive.” Good people can do bad things, and we’ve seen that.

Ordinary people over the edge

Buck: So, these are not necessarily, you know, prison escapees.

Jeff: No.

Buck: These are just average everyday citizens that suddenly have become desperate.

Jeff: Yeah, and some people, sometimes it’s just people, you know, that the human nature always just amazes me. And some people are just right on the edge of that.Like, by day, they’re pretty much your typical everyday person, but it doesn’t take much to tip them to the other side. And a good example of that is the person… if there was a,like,let’s say there was a—I don’t want to say a soccer match [laughs]—like a baseball, like the World Series or whatever, and the team that lost, like, everybody’s rioting in the streets back home. And people all of a sudden… the police are there for normal everyday workload, but when there is a riot or something like that, they’re really just not prepared.

Buck: Overwhelmed. Yeah.

Jeff: They’re overwhelmed by it. So, when you can see good people that look out there and see that there is no consequence for other people’s actions. Like, when they’re tipping over…

Buck: There’s some enmity or something associated with it.

Jeff: There is, like when you look over, and you see five people rocking a police car by trying to tip it over and laughing and jumping up on top of it and smashing the […] windshield and everything. It’s like, well, nobody’s stopping them, and in fact, there arethree police [officers] over there,and they don’t seem to be…like, they look like they have no clue what to do. So, [laughs]“This looks like fun,I’ll go in and tip over a police car.” So, there are those people that will look out there and say,“Wll, you know, if the rest or if everyone else can do it, I can do it.”

Buck: Yeah.

Jeff: And then there’s the people who are just like, they wanted to do things, and most people I think will. I believe in the good-naturedpeople, but, you know, when survivability is a factor,it changes the game. And I’ve seen that so many times. I’ve seen it in combat. I’ve seen it in civilians during combat. And the lines between right and wrong get blurred. And a lot of people don’t realize that.

Buck:I guess you can’t be complacent and just assume everyone is going to do the right thing.

Why urban survival is critical

Jeff: Right. So, a lot of what we talk about, when it comes to urban survival, is kind of that chaos, that social, that breakdown in civil order aspect of it. But even to speak to another reason why urban survival is so critical because even though you may think that you’regoing to go off, and you’re going to go off in the wilderness if the end of the world comes, and you’rejust going to live off of nuts and berries and deer.And that might, you know, you might have those skills.

Buck: Right.

Jeff: But the fact is that there are going to be reasons why you’re going to need to go in urban environments. It might be for medical reasons. You may have somebody who, you know, you’re not going to cure cancer with roots and tubers.Well, there’s probably people that would argue, but nonetheless.

Buck: Maybe, in the rainforest, sure.

Jeff: Exactly, exactly.

Buck: Yes.

Jeff: So, there’s going to be reasons for resupply. You know, you might need things from the post-apocalyptic Home Depot, or whatever it is. You’re going to need things from an urban environment, and there’s going to be reasons why you’re going to want to go there for resupply and for needs that you might have. You’ve got to know how to navigate that urban jungle to be able to do those things.

Buck:So, it sounds like, you know, you’ve been seeing and hearing quite a few things that have been sort of driving you to get your message out. Is that true?

Jeff:Yeah, there is, and I’m not your—I don’t want to say typical—but I’m not like the tinfoil-hat wearing, youknow, crazy dude who’s sitting on a bunker, and, well, not at least that you know of.

Buck:[Laughs]

Jeff:But, you know, I don’t have a thousand AR-15s in my basement ready to go and take on the world or anything like that.

The nature of and the warning signs of a realistic survival scenario

Buck: So, you’re into practical self-reliance?

Jeff: I’m completely into practical self-reliance. But that being said,[…] somepeople have asked me like,”Okay, well, zombies aren’tgoing to come out and start munching on my cheekbone, so […] what could possibly really happen?” And so, […] we put together kind of like the five no BS things that could possibly happen that people need to know about right now because […] there are other warning signs that I see where things could change very drastically, sometimes at a moment’s notice.

Buck: OK.

Jeff: Sometimes on a small scale. Sometimes on a very, very large-scale so…

Buck: Could you elaborate on those warning signs? Specifically with what you were saying.

Jeff: Yeah, sure.So, on a small scale you might look at something like a natural disaster. That could be a hurricane or tornado. And even during those times, even in very, very small communities that you think would be where everybody pulls together, and nobody, you know…the police report for the week was that“there was a cat up in a tree”—that sort of thing.

Moore, Oklahoma, was a good example of that. Well, there was looting in Moore, Oklahoma, and there’s a lot of good people too, but there were a lot of, you know, what ended up happening was a tornado hit this little community. Resources were cut off. They had a bunch of people, this is a really good example.

Buck: OK.

Jeff: Like, people looking to do the right thing flooded Moore, Oklahoma,to be able to come and help out. And that’s, you know, that’s good, that’s good brothers and sisters coming to help people in their time of need. Unfortunately, resources were not able to get to there. So, all of a sudden,you’ve got a thousand people coming in to lend a hand with no lodging, no food, no water. Local stores jacked up,you know, gasoline and water to, like, $10 a gallon or whatever it was. So, now that’s illegal to do that, but that doesn’t stop people from doing it, and that’s what I mean. Like, I’m not saying these shopkeepers […] have an evil lair in the Earth’s core that they’re trying totake over the world.

Buck: Yeah.

Jeff: Butit’s just like they see an opportunity, they see everybody else doing it. The guy across the street’scharging $10 per gallon of gasoline. So those types of things happen, and that’s not zombie related. That’s just being prepared for real-world events that could thrust you into that. Where all of a sudden you might’ve had enough food, but now all of a sudden a tornado, like, that’sa good example. A lot of peoplestore away survival food.Tornado comes through, your house is gone, where’s your food?

Buck: Sure.

Jeff: Like, you could spend the next five hours trying to comb the landscape looking for your Ramen noodles, but, you know, your food’s gone. So,now what do you do?

Buck: It’s a moral dilemma for some people, right? Is that some people have the food or have been prepared and others don’t, and, you know, how do you reconcile that?

Jeff: Right. Yeah, and then the people that are prepared…[…] when you do see somebody that is prepared or their house is still standing or whatever, well, neighbors are likely to come and knock on the door and say,“My kids are hungry,” the Red Cross, you know, all they’re giving out is, like, one granola bar per personcoz they don’t know when resupply is coming or whatever.And people are going to start asking those that are, if you, if you look prepared…

Buck: Right, of course.

Jeff: More than they are,they’re going to ask. When you say no, they’re going to beg.

Buck: Mm-hmm.

Jeff:And at some point in the course over the days or hours or weeks or however it is, begging turns into demanding.

Buck: Mm-hmm.

Jeff: And demanding turns into “I’m just going to take your shit.”

Buck: Yes.

Wide-scale event that could change the lives of Americans according to Jeff

Jeff: So, these are all factors that a lot of people, like, don’t look at, I mean, there arejusta lot of lessons to be learned from practical experiences that are out there. So, natural disasters areprobably the most common one. I would say, I won’t go through all five coz it will suckup all the time. But the other thingpeople asked me, as far as a wide-scale event that you are most concerned about, that you think could change life as we know it. What is that thing?

Buck: Yes?

Jeff: That thing, for me, is our electrical grid.

Buck: OK.

Jeff: This we’ve known about forever. To his credit, in 2008, President Obama, one of his campaign speeches out there. Well, you know, we needa way to get jobs back; we have an infrastructure that is essentially held together with spit and bubblegum.

Buck:Yeah. It’s creaking. Yeah, sure.

Jeff: Yeah, absolutely, and a testament to that was when there was a blackout throughout the entire Northeast and a large chunk of Canada.And it was just blackout. No power. And where did that come from?That came from a tree limb that hit a powerline in Ohio, that threw a quarter of, you know…

Buck: So, no terrorist activity.[laughs]

Jeff: No, it was a tree limb, for crying out loud.[…] And there’s lots of, you know, there are people from government organizations who’ve been trying to scream and basically say,“You don’t understand.” Like, we have to fix this but let’s make sure that Obama fails and […], let’s not build the infrastructure.Let’snot put jobs in that, and, basically, I’m not a fan of Washington at all.

Why westerners are oblivious to probable impending danger

Buck: Well, this is a good point here. I mean, why do you think the average Westerner’s oblivious to this escalating danger? Is it a belief that our government will take care of us? Or something else?

Jeff: Absolutely.I think we’re very dependent on the government. We’re very dependent on all the systems that we take for granted because they’re all happening behind the scenes; we don’t see them. We just know that our life is nice and comfy. So, I think people become very complacent with that. “It’ll never happen to me. They’ll be there to take care of me.” And, you know, again look at Katrina. I don’t even have to go into it, but just look at examples like that.

Those examples happen all the time. It’s not like we had Katrina, and,“Oh! Now I get it.OK, well, we’ve got everything fixed now.” No, it’s… I mean, look at Ferguson, Missouri, now. I mean, this is an ongoing problem and because these things happen so rarely to individuals, and an authority figures they don’t have a lot to go off of. We had a period right after 9/11, and I was in the security industry. I was managing security companies right after 9/11 and during 9/11.

Buck: Okay.

Jeff: And we had a period of about two years where we’re extremely focused on training, supplies, gear, preparing, for the next major terrorist attack. And so we…but we’re a society of “Well, looks like we’re OK.”

Buck: Yeah.

Jeff: So, you know, we’re fine. So, again, it’s in human nature—well, it’s western nature—to become very complacent with this stuff, so we do rely too much on the government and local authorities […] taking care of us.

Buck: Little bit of the nanny state.

Jeff: Yeah.

Buck: Now,I grabbed a couple stats that you’re probably familiar with. Back in the 1870s, 53 percentof the labor force were farmers, and, now, less than 2.6 percentof the labor force is producing food. And I think that it’s not the food so much as an indication of a reliance on technology. Areliance on the system, on sort of a nanny state.And I think that now, it’s a stark indicator that Americans have become far less self-reliant than they were over hundred years ago. What are your thoughts on that?

Jeff explains that one disaster could lead to a chain of events

Jeff:Yeah, well, here’s what is really critical about what you just said,because we are so reliant on technology. This is a chain thing, so when you take a look at how one event can change life as we know it,there’s a chain thing that happens. So, let’s take this as an example:our food production is entirely dependent upon tractors and, you know, technology, basically.

Buck: Yeah.

Jeff:OK? One of the things that we talk about in our warning signs and our survival gear report is that,let’s say there’s a hurricane that hits the Houston area, okay? Well, Houston is where we not only have a lot of oil refineries that make gasoline,that make petroleum products, but we also have a lot of companies […] there that are supporting that industry, the petroleum industry.

Buck: Yes.

Jeff: So, it could be repair. You know, at number one, if the gas doesn’t come, and if the companies that are supporting the gas lines are either wiped out, or there’s nothing there for them to support anymore, and their businesses go under… Now, you have no fuel for tractor-trailers that […] transport vegetables and fruit and everything else from that area […].

All the technology that we rely on to even get our food out of the ground is now gone.So now, what started off as, you’re sitting in, you know, your boxer shorts watching reruns of The Simpsons out in Nebraska, and you’re like,“Oh, those poor souls in Houston just got wiped out.”No! Like, anticipate if it’s a really a significant storm that’s going to affect food production around the world, essentially, but definitely within the United States and in a very short time.

Buck: Yup. Now, I think what are the stats that maybe a city has a couple days of food on hand before everything’s cleared out?Two or three days? I don’t know whatthe stats are.

Jeff: Yeah, people typically say there is, yet most people have three days’ worth of food in there. I tend to think it’s more than that, just looking at my own natural cupboard.

Buck: OK.

Jeff: Like,[…] not theprepper cupboard but the […] naturalstuff. I think most people have rice and, you know, stuff like that to be able to last longer. But again,I mean, I think what we’ve seen in reality, when it comes to natural disasters, they tend to take people out. You know, they tend to flood your home, and a lot of that stuff is just not protected; many lose a lot of what they have.

Basic readiness

Buck: Well,you know, you make a very interesting point because let’s talk about basic readiness. You mentioned flood. Just last year, we had the Boulder flood. I live in Boulder, and 11,000 people evacuated. People died, a whole town was cut off with no food, water, or electricity for an extended period of time. You know, is it hard to prepare yourself to get out of a dodge in an event like this?

Jeff: It’s not hard, but it’s hard to try and do it on the fly like,“Oh hell! What the hell do we do now? Honey, get the luggage. Let’s get the kids in the car. Grab the dogs. Grab some [food], pack it in the cooler, and let’s go!” And, you know,there areso many factors in what we call “bugging out.”[…] Like 98 percent of people out there,if you’re relying on figuring out what that stuff is at the time when the warning comes, or the disaster comes—those are the people you see in that parking lot on the highway, pulled over alongside the road because their car has run out of gas, and that’s“those people.” Those are the zombies who aren’t prepared.

Buck:[Laughs]

Jeff:Now, it’s not hard to become prepared, but the biggest challenge that people have is procrastination.I mean, even people who consider themselves survivalists, you know, most of them, well, most of the people that I talk to really are following misinformation and just BS that’s running around forums out there about how to prepare. You know, we take a very challenging role when it comes to information about survivalism. Largely because I’ve done a lot of this stuff in action, being in the military. And I know it’s like, I see what everybody thinks that they’re going to do.

Buck: Right.

Jeff: And it doesn’t work like that.

Jeff explains layering out your survival gear and the importance of everyday carry

Buck: So, if you’re a survival dad, where on the priority list would you place putting together a bug-out bag?And I hate…I know I use that term,and people think,“Oh, bug-out bag? You must be a hardcore prepper.” But, you know, just call it a “go bag,” or if you want to think of a better name for that, but just whatever supplies you’re going to need if you want to get out of town fast. Is that a high-priority thing? […] Are there other things that you’d put on top of that or?

Jeff:Yeah, well, we look at our survival gear in [layers].Kind of,if you think almost like a jawbreaker. […} [There are]seven layers that we have of survival gear that we talk about layering out, and a lot of those overlap one another.For me, the most critical gear that you have, even before a bug-out bag or a survival kit, is your everyday carry.

Buck: OK.

Jeff: So, we always look at it as from a worst-case standpoint. So,preppers and survivalistare really…they have a lot of pride in their bug-out bag.

Buck: Yes.

Jeff:But you may never get that bag. So we always look at it as the worst-case scenario is an instant disaster. So, you’re in the mall with your family, a tornado comes through and just takes out the parking lot. You no longer have your car. It’s complete pandemonium, you know, bombs are going off. There are fires because the gas line isbroken or whatever.

All you might have is the gear that you have on you at that one time. So we always look at it as you have to be able to survive, at least get to safety using the gear that you have.

Buck: OK.

Jeff:So we talk a lot about everyday carry gear, then there’s also the “Go-bag.”

Buck: Is that what you refer to as a murse for men?

Jeff: Well, that’s actually the second layer. So […] the stuff that you don’t want to carry near in your front pocket, you know, coz it might be a little bit too bulky. But it’s the stuff that you carry with you…[…] one example of that is I typically carry aDead On Tools Pry Bar, and it’s a, you know, you get this thing at Home Depot, and it is about eight inches long,and it’s meant for prying out nails and things like that. But it just looks like a, you know, a ninja-death-assassin tool from hell.

Buck:Dead On Tools Pry Bar? Is that right?

Jeff: Yeah, it’s from Dead On Tools, and it’s just badass. Number one, you can use it for breaching obstacles.

Buck: OK.

Jeff: You can put it in your hand, and it’s a formidable weapon, but it’s very heavy. So if you walk around with it in your front pocket, not only is it going to be heavy, but it’s going to look like, you know…

Buck:[Laughs]… something else is going on.

Jeff:Is that a Dead On Tools prybar in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Buck: Yeah, right.

Jeff: So that stuff typically goes in our “murse” orman purse or, you know,call it our “Scram Bags.” that’s kind oflike an escape and evasion thing. So you might have to escape and evade riots, whatever […] Let’s say you live in Ferguson, Missouri,[…] while riots are going on. So you might need that kind of a gear to be able to get to safety.

Buck: OK.

Jeff: Then there’s the “bug-out bag,”and that is the gear that we take—we put a lot ofemphasis in that because that might be all that you have. So,if you can stay at home, great. If you have to get in your vehicle and bug-out, great.You should have a kit for your vehicle because you’re going to obviously carry more stuff than you can in a bug-out bag.

Buck: So do I need a separate kit for the car?

Jeff: Yes, there aredifferent things you’regoing to need in a kit in the car than you would at home coz you’re not going to be able to carry all andeverything.

Buck: It’s funny you mentioned that because we were just hiking with the family, and I live in Colorado where the weather can turn on a dime. And if you’re caught out there with, you know, cotton on, and it starts raining, it’s cold and windy. It was cold andwindy on top of the mountain where we were, you know, you could wind up,and if you get disoriented, you could be in a world of hurt.

Jeff:Yeah.

Buck: So,you know, just having extra rain gear or some Mylar blankets or something could’ve made a big difference for us.

Jeff: Yeah, well, so those are some examples of things that you would havein a vehicle kit, but then you have to plan for that, you know,you have to have a redundancy plan so…

Buck: Okay.

Jeff: If your car breaks down, f you run out of gas, if you don’t have resupply, if you’re stuck in that parking lot on the highway.Your only way to get to your destination maybe your feet,so when that happens you’re not going to take the Hello Kitty backpack that your kid has.Or you see a lot of people taking luggage, trying to wheel it through the grass.

Buck: Mow it around? Yeah.

Jeff:Exactly. So, that’s why having an actual backpack with survival gear ready to go that you don’t have to, you know, think about,“OK, what do I put in this thing?” or whatever. Having that ready to go is very practical.

Now, welook at even redundancy transportation. So, you have your bicycle, like, we have a bicycle rack for our vehicle. So, our car breaks down. I can get much further on a bicycle than I can up on my feet.The bike goes bad or whatever, something happens then I’m on my feet. But you need…This is just an example of how you need to look at layering your survival gear plan, so that you can go from chaos and pandemonium. Get to safety.Be able to hopefully stay at home. If you can’t, you can get in your vehicle. If that’s no longer viable, you get on your bike. If that’s no longer viable, you’ve got your feet, and you can transition to all those stages seamlessly.

Buck: I come from a tech background, and it sounds a bit like not having a single point of failure in your system is what you’re describing.

Jeff: Yeah.

Why can’t people just survive in place? Best and worst case

Buck:I think you addressed this already—I just want to make sure people really get it—[but] why can’t I just forego all of this and survive in place?

Jeff: Well, hopefully you can; that is typically the best plan for you. But that decision might be made for you. And people have died trying to make that decision. That’s very, very critical,and it’s good that you bring that up because we highlight some cases from the hurricane Andrew on the Northeast. And looking at the people that died in that situation. Most of them, some of them, for example, they evacuated when they were told to in a previous storm,and they came back and found that their house had been looted. And so,at least one guy that I know of, that I remember from the news, was like,“Screw that, I’m not leaving coz when I come back my television’s going to be gone.” So he stayed, and he died. He drowned in his house.

You know, for me, if an evacuation order comes, I always look at things like,“What’s the best thing that can happen? What’s the worst that can happen?” So, you know, what’s the worst thing that can happen if I stay?

Buck: Yes.

Jeff:The worst thing that can happen if I stay is I die, you know.

Buck:[Laughs] That option?

Jeff: Yeah,what’s the best thing that could happen if I stay? Well,you know, nothing ever happens. Storm blows over, and I can continue watching the Simpsons in my underwear.

Buck: Yeah.

Jeff:So, then, is it worth risking the worst thing happening to hope for the best thing happening?And in that case, you know, for me, if an evacuation order is given, take evacuation order. Problem is that most people don’t know where to go when that’s given.

Buck: Right.

Jeff: Or they’ll go to the, like,“Everybody get out of your homes and come to the local community center or to the local school or to the Superdome.” So, it’s those type of things because people aren’t prepared, communities aren’t prepared, and they suffer because of it. So, having a plan B and using it if the worst thing that can happen is you get back,and your television was taken…

Buck: Some stuff’s gone. Who cares, right? You can get it back.

Jeff:You have insurance for that. Absolutely. Absolutely, and mostly the people that die are the ones that either think something bad is going to happen, or “They said this before—they told us to evacuate before, and nothing bad happens, so it won’t this time.

Buck: Well, I think you studied a lot of psychology around, you know, about behavior. Especially group behavior. So, someone sees things, no one else is doing something,maybe other people are not reacting as urgently that they need to take action, get out of dodge, or whatever it is. They may be lulled into complacency that they can just sit tight and not do anything as well.

Jeff: Yeah.

Buck: Andso, I think you need to break yourself out of that herd mentality, possibly.

Jeff: Absolutely,coz you might even see your neighbors, like, you know,“Hey Jim, what are you getting? Are you going to leave?” He’s like, “What?Our mayor’s telling us to leave? Yeah, right.”

Buck:[Laughs]

Jeff:“This guy’s the same one that put that damn stoplight up in town that everybodyhates.”[…] And say,“Well, you know, I guess if he is not going everything must be all, right, you know, so…”

Buck: I think that’s why they call it self-reliance and not group-reliance. [Laughs]

Jeff:That’s why you’ve got to grab them yourself […] and take the leadership role. Your family’s counting on it, you know.

The key items in a bug-out bag

Buck: Well, this is amazing stuff, Jeff I really appreciate you doing this. […] Well, I’m going to leave you with this one thing: is there one key item that is a must-have in every bug-out bag? Is there one like, “Hey this is one of the centerpieces you need to have in there.”

Jeff:Yeah, absolutely. So,I mean, you’ve got to look at your basic necessities that we learn from, you know, the time we’re in grade school. You need food, clothing, shelter, and water, right? So,there’s the law of 3’s. Can you live three minutes without oxygen, you know? Three days without water, three weeks without food? And so, water is that one, I mean obviously oxygen. But water, people tend to think of water in terms of water bottles and things like that. And, one gallon of water I think is like eight pounds.

Buck: Okay.

Jeff: Heavy.And so, that’s one of the things where […] I strongly stray away from.Mostof the survivalists out there because they’ve got their bug-out bag so stacked with stuff that it’s too damn heavy… Like, if they actually, you know, most of them are… Never mind, I won’t come down on them too hard. But….

Buck: Okay. [Laughs]

Jeff: If they ever actually had, you know… and I tell people,“Put your backpack on and actually go for a seven-mile road march. That’s what we call it in the military.

Buck: Right.

Jeff:They aren’t going to do that, but wear it around your house, and see how long you can go. It’s too jammed. So, if you can eliminate eight pounds there for agallon of water you’re doing somewhat… So,what I tell people is what you need is a water-purification system. You need a water-creation system.

Buck: Okay.

Jeff: So that when your water’s gone, you’re not like,“Okay now what do I do. I’m trying to remember what was that episode of Man Versus Wild, he took a Pepsi bottle and some sandand some charcoal and some bubblegum and a paperclip, and what did he do again?”

Buck:[Laughs] You all be whipping that together like MacGyver. Right.

Jeff:So you need a water-purification system, and what we use is like a water bladder bag, and then we use an in-line water-filtration system that uses a ceramic filter or a charcoal filterin it, so that you can basically take pond scum water. Put it in there, and you can drink that along the way because wild water is going to become contaminated. So water, people tend to think it’s going to come right out of the faucet just fine—and it doesn’t. So, that’s the thing, you can go without food for a while if you have to, but the water you’re going to need, and that’swhere people are going to become the most desperate: trying to get just a drop of water.

Buck: Good advice.I’m going to set up a place for Survival Dad listeners to go and find out more about your magazine at survivaldad.com/Jeff. Is there anything that maybe you’d like for me to put there for the listening audience that might be helpful?

Jeff:Yeah, I would say their best place to start is with our Survival Gear Secrets Bookthat they can have for free, and that covers a lot of the no BS, covers the five no-BS warning signs. It talks about how to layer your survival gear plan in the right way, a lot of things that people don’t ever consider. It covers a lot,and dispels a lot of those myths, misinformation, and BS that’s out there right now that most people are falling prey to,even people with a lot of experience.

Final notes

Buck:Oh, excellent. Thank you, Jeff, I really appreciate that. So, everyone, check out at survivaldad.com/Jeff. And Jeff,I’ll post it up there, some information on how to find out more about Jeff’s magazine, Combat and Survival Magazine,as well as the Survival Gear Secrets report that Jeff has very graciously offered to provide you.

So Jeff, thanks again. I really appreciate this. We need to—I’d like to have you come back on the show coz there are so many other facets of combat and survival that I know you cover, and we just did one little slice of it around “bug-out bags.”

Jeff: Yeah. And I love talking about this stuff, so… [Laughs]

Buck: I can tell. [Laughs] Well, thanks again, man, and I will talk you soon.

Jeff: Cool, thanks man.

Buck: Take care.